How much fact in the fiction?
Gisborne deserves to be placed in its timeframe. What began as a bit of fun has now moved from fan-fiction to historical fiction, historical romance and historical fantasy. Despite the fact that the legend is just that, a myth, Gisborne -the- man- of -folktale lived during the reign of Richard Lionheart and so must be placed within that period.
As the writer, I was beholden to research the period in detail: clothes, time, religious practice, food, habits, entertainment, sex, medicine, politics, trade. More and more detail to get a sense of where my protagonists lived and how they might feel in that environment at any one moment.
Stacking some of the books
The more I read, the more I found to read until I felt myself drowning in books and in PDF’S from online research.
Drowning!
So how does one sort the stuff out, how much does one use? Is too much enough, or is a mere snifter required?
To be honest, I am not sure I know. I ‘ve read the doyen of historical fiction, Dorothy Dunnett with relish and literally gorged on every glorious fact she included in every line of all of the books she ever wrote. And at the other end of the scale I’ve read authors like Posie Graeme Evans and YA writer Felicity Pulman who write with a deft and sparing hand, never drowning the writer in fact; delivering just enough to give an authentic sense of time and place.
So again I ask, how much is enough? I’ve been involved in a lively discussion on Goodreads with the Historical Fictionistas about just this and personally as a reader I know I’ll accept an average amount of researched fact that any writer might want to give. Not too much. The exception to this personal reading rule is DD because it is very much her style, her tone. But as a writer writing my first ever historical fiction novel, I am still unsure how much is required. Without doubt the research must be used correctly; there shouldn’t really be any excuse for saying the clock chimed if the clock didn’t exist in the timeframe. But equally do I really want to know the detail of the canonical hours and how they worked? I love to eat chocolate but I’m not in any great need to read how its created.
My absolute favourites.
My narratives are character driven and I am inclined to only ever give enough fact to give the scene and the character veracity. I’d love to know what other historical fiction writers and readers feel about this and welcome comment! How much, dear reader, do you want to read? How much dear successful hist.fict writer, do you use in your novels?
To date, I have read 48 non-fiction texts that I have either bought, borrowed from the library or researched within the Reference Library and I’ve read over 20 PDF’s online. If nothing else, I shall have a head full of leads for another story and know the difference between chausse and bliaut!
Addendum: You might like to look at :
http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/1124578-facts-in-fiction
and also:
I don’t know much about Medieval history and literature, or at least, not as much as I know about the history and literature of other periods. Guess what? Studying and teaching English, I know much more about the history of the United Kingdom that about my country’s. How much do I want to know about historical facts while reading historical fiction? Much, of course. But what I especially appreciate in historical novels is their showing how those facts and ancient rules/habits/beliefs affected human lives. I have never read Dorothy Dunnett. Plus one on my ATBR list. By the way, in your pictures, I have recognized one of the books I bought in London in November: Ian Mortimer, The Time Traveller’s Guide to Medieval England. I have to start preparing my syllabus for my 3rd year classes (medieval literature/history one hour a week). I can choose the topics, authors, genres, to read with my “not so competent in the English language” students… The Hobbit? Robin Hood Cycle? The Pillars of the Earth? The Arthurian legends?
Mortimer’s guide is brilliant except that it details the true Middle Ages, not the early Middle Ages of Richard I’s time. Neverthless his manner of detailing as if through my own eyes as I walk from town to village is extraordinary. A marvellous tool.
I like the gentle aroma of detail, the occasional drip… that is my inclination.
I imagine historical background is a bit like backstory – never plonk it in, drip-feed it as you go along. The characters aren’t aware they are historical – to them it’s just the way life is.
The only historical novelist I read is Mary Renault, and I reckon she gets everything right.
Now there’s a mantra, Lexi: ‘to them it’s just the way life is!’
It fits with the aroma and waft technique that I prefer.
I am very much looking forward to your Gisborne story! I am sure you will find the ideal middle path for the amount of historical background in your story.
I think the best way for it is, use what you feel comfortable with.
I read historical fiction where I had the clear impression the publisher forced the author to explain the historical background and the outcome was like copied in passages from a text book.
But I have full confidence in you and am looking forward to the result!
CDoart, Thank you for your support. I wonder if you’ll mind if this whole thing takes so much longer than i originally thought it would. We’re looking at 2012 now… perhaps tied in with Thorin’s arrival in our lives!
Gisborne and Ysabel are my closest friends right now… as if I’m dressed in a bliaut and mounted astride alongside them both as they travel the roads of France and England. Lexi’s words hold great truth: Guy and Ysabel aren’t going to be overawed by what they see, to them its the norm. So I just build a ‘normal’ life around them. They are the stars of the show, not their setting.
Oh, then I think I must remain patient for the story about Gisborne and Ysabel. When I will read it I will really imagine you riding along with them on their journey.
In the meantime I will keep myself busy with another late middle age guy who also was not as bad as first believed ;o)
Today, one of your books arrived and I am looking forward to getting to read it.
All the best to you for your work and research. Thorin will make a great impact, when he arrives and we learn more. The first glimpses were overwhelming.
Good questions! In my histfic writing, I try to make the historical facts natural, just as much a part of the scene-setting as saying it’s sunny out. I always approach them with the belief that, to my character, all these strange habits, foods, items, daily rituals are normal–and this makes me write them in a way that’s less fact-chucking and more interactive. How the character interacts with his/her world.
But I cop to finding things that simply must be included for geekiness factor and working them in. Because sometimes there’s that little detail that makes you go “ooooh, NOW I get what it must have been like.”
Perfectly explained, Rowenna. it’s just that little word, or a glance sideways to spot a woman swinging up onto a horse to sit astride (no sidesaddles in those days) … the subtle giveaway that adds even more subtle veracity.
As a reader, historical realities work best for me when they affect the character or plot. I like to know that one of the huntsman’s boys slept among the hounds to know their heath and condition, but it’s better if the effect of that fact is revealed in the course of the story, so I can observe it myself rather than having it pointed out to me, or even worse, lectured to me. If a historical reality embodies what it indicates, it also lessens the OMG factor – “They really did THAT?”
(I actually don’t know if that factoid is true or not, but I believe T. H. White. Read The Once And Future King for a well-researched historical novel that wears its learning very lightly.)
Hmm… food for thought. Like the fact that the king could gift (perhaps an unfortunate choice of word there) a noble orphan to another noble as a ward or that peasants had to PAY to use the bake house in the manor to bake their own bread. Or that some dyes were so valuable because they were quite simply unavailable in England.
Or, as i have said before, that they used hay as toiletpaper!
“The characters aren’t aware they are historical – to them it’s just the way life is.”
Lexi’s point is key. My early drafts of my novel of King John and Isabella (still very far from finished) stumbled on this very issue. It’s a real difficulty to know how much your readers will know or care about the detail. But for the characters it’s just how things are.
For a political historical novel like my project, the detail of then current affairs is of great importance. For Gisborne I guess it would depend on how much your story is about his actual life rather than a fictional story about his character.
I suspect that thanks to the multitude of films, TV and books about the Robin Hood legend most readers drawn to your story, as mine, will already be well acquainted with the period and have a good visual idea of what life was like.
For my study of John and Isabella I felt it best to give great detail only to relevant aspects of their life and times where I believed the popular images from film and TV were flawed (as for example KIng John being the bad guy and Richard the hero).
Great to be back reading Mesmered again, Prue. Have had a few very disrupted weeks, but shall be visiting your recent past posts over the weekend and catching up on everything.
True Mark… most everyone knows the Middle ages from Robin Hood, Merlin etc. but would it not be a vast assumption on my part as the writer to EXPECT the reader would know those things?
What if they were Stargate/Starwars/Dr.Who fans and just decided that at $2.99 it might be worth flipping from fantasy to hist.fict for a read but knew NOTHING about 1100-1200AD?
That said, I think we ARE on the same page… I too believe that Richard wasn’t the nice fellow we have all been led to believe (ah, spin doctors… even then) and that anyone who allowed such a massive massacre of Jews in London had to have had appalling minders and to have had a faulty thinking process himself.
It’s so good to have you back… as was mentioned on the Big Red Chair with Barbara Silkstone… you’ve been missed and I for one look forward to your support in the near future!
Reading historic fiction and not feeling as though you are at a lecture shows an author’s skill. Subtle introduction of facts is what brings me back to a good author. When they can show the details without becoming long winded.
I read somewhere that as long as the author knows the facts, they will come through in their writing.
What you apply to historic fiction here, I try to apply to my fantasy writing. The research is as consuming, as is resisting the temptation to get bogged down in the details.
Great post.
Thank you rosalie. I find the line” as long as the author knows the facts, they will come through in their writing.” very reassuring. Being bogged down is something I want to avoid and is a reason I put some hist.ficts. back on the shelves!
At some point in an earlier discussion on Historical Fictionistas, someone said if the reader wanted overt detail, surely they’d read a non-fiction book! There’s a point there.
Personally I like tidbits that capture my interest so I go and learn more about the bits that intrigue me, but read the rest to paint a picture of the scene. I read a story, the first time, for the entertainment and light relief. If the story is good I will re-read, usually within 6-12 months. Then I savour it more, take more notice of the detail, pick up on the -oh I wonder if that is real, and go and find out more. For example, I recently watched The Tudors, and found myself quite a few times pulling up a wiki on the different characters to see who was related to whom and what fitted where – thank goodness for the pause button 🙂 I find that if a story is too ‘heavy’ on the descriptions it tends to feel like a lecture and I drift off before getting in to the plot. I don’t like my leisure reading to be hard work.
Cathy, hi. I agree with you. I find that I gravitate toward non-fiction text that will enlarge the scope of the work I’m reading. But interestingly only AFTER I’ve read the fiction in question… I hate using the ‘pause button’ as I read a novel, especially a historical fiction as I have to drag myself off being the fly on the wall and I’ve never been a good shape-changer!
As a reader, I feel that only details that play a role in the narrative matter enough to be included. For example, fiction writers don’t tend to focus on habits of elimination. I’d rather not imagine how a writer might work using hay for toilet paper into the story. That’s a detail that doesn’t seem very appropriate. Yes, it’s an interesting point to run across in research, but consider whether your readers really need to know about it.
The King being able to gift a noble orphan to another noble as ward can be very relevant, however. I’ve seen this as a plot point in a number of medieval novels.
Hallo Shomeret,
I can’t imagine ever using the detail about the hay. Ever. It was amusing when it was discovered, as I am a farmer with 2000 bales of hay in our barn. Read what you like into that.
But the detail is just an example of the many small, odd things that turn up in research and like so many who have already commented, it’s those odd throw-away facts that often lend more veracity than the larger well-known ones.
as I am a farmer with 2000 bales of hay in our barn. Read what you like into that.
Bring our own 3ply when we come to visit?
Funny Cathy! Might be a good idea!
Historical detail is something that must be used judiciously- the writer should do a lot of research and immerse her/himself in the daily life of the era, but you don’t need to tell your readers everything you know. The object is to use the information to create a realistic world that is different than that of your readers.
The photo of you behind the huge pile of texts made me chortle. Reminds me of me! Incidentally, I think you should go join the forum at the Historical Writer’s Association: http://www.thehwa.co.uk/
OMGoodness! See, this is why I LOVE the blogging and online worrld. Thank you sooo much for the link!
I agree with everything everyone has already said and I don’t want to repeat anything. But I wanted to throw in my two cents and say that I have tried to read historical fiction before and been totally put off by too much historical detail. If a story’s setting seems too alien to me, it puts me off as I can’t relate to it. I think only very relevant detail should be put in, and then only in context. Oops… I think I might be repeating already!!
Great post, Prue, and the comments give food for thought. For me, I try to be true to the times and allow my characters to live their lives. Once someone suggested my character would not have acted in such a way (in 1307). My reply, “Were you there? Well he was, and that’s what he told me!” I say, if you can’t trust your characters, who can you trust? (After you have drowned in all of the research, of course 🙂 )
What great comment: ‘Were you there? Well he was!’ What guts that author had! I have a feeling that there are a lot of well-read hardcore historical fiction fans who would be incensed at such bravado. To be truthful, i am nervous that I won’t meet the criteria that seems to be laid down for authors by hist.fict writers, but nothing ventured, nothing gained!