Do 200 years make a difference?
I was researching some detail for Gisborne yesterday and on a wonderful site, Writing the Medieval World, they had used an image for one post from 
Très Riches Heures by the Limbourg Brothers for the Duc de Berry.
Despite being a generalised commentary, Wikipedia does have rather a good entry on the images.
I saw my first example of Très Riches Heures hanging in a friend’s house about thirty years ago. They had bought the copy in Paris and I remember it hung at the junction of a stair well. I was always mesmerised by the richness of colour and the detail and would stop and stare whenever I walked past. It’s hard to believe that the pigment in the originals in the Musée Condé has stayed so pure since the fifteenth century.
Almost everyone who has read this blog has read parts of the rough draft of Gisborne and they know that it takes place on the cusp of the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. The cover for the book will be in the hands of the designer, of course. But chance Facebook comment when I put a Limbourg image up had me lusting after one of the many images of this glorious Book of Hours for a cover.
My dilemma is the age-old one that rears its head with daunting frequency in historical fiction. How much accuracy?
Because there is a 200 year discrepancy between Gisborne’s part in the Middle Ages and the time of Très Riches Heures. And I just know that some reviewer somewhere would point that out, as if I didn’t know.
Of course all this may not necessarily matter as the designer may have her own ideas of what should go there, but in the meantime, what do you think? Would such a discrepancy in time matter?
Wouldn’t make a bit of difference to me, and I have degree in Art History. We see the melding of centuries so much–after all “Renaissance Faires” have people in costume from anywhere from the 12th century to the 16th. If you used the detail of the castle in the one just above, which looks earlier anyway, everybody would be happy. Of course, you do want to see what the designer comes up with. I had a firm idea of what I wanted my covers to look like and the designer came up with much better ones that blew me away.
Hi Anne. Well, look at what they do on TV and in the movies! The Tudors aroused great ire for the apparently untruthful costume. I dare say Anonymous will do the same. Me? As a reader or viewer I don’t care over-much because the story is the thing for me. I have enough knowledge to understand the history being portrayed and would never be disrespectful of it but i do think its fun to step outside the square occasionally. That said, I hate seeing Shakespeare being performed in anything other than Elizabethan clothing and to the original script. Perhaps i’m a hypocrite!
But equally, there is this marvellous thing called artistic licence. Love it! I sometimes think the artist/film-producer/writer is paying a compliment to the timeframe WITH that licence. But I dare say the purists will disagree.
I will certainly wait to see what my designer comes up with. She’s never disappointed yet! She has EMPATHY for my stories in capital letters!
Hey Chick!
I’m w/Anne! Would not bother me one bit. However I really think that both Anne and I might be in a minority when it comes to that. I’ve noticed that a quite a large number of reviewers get ‘hung-up’ on so many details that they , in my humble opinion, loose the ‘feel’ of the story.
Judith James’ THE KING’S COURTESAN was such a great story and all this reviewer saw was the cover that had a man wearing an unbuttened shirt, and all she could think of is that they DIDN’T make sherts to open all the way down (they were pulling them over the heads) in the reign of Charles II!!! That ruined the prose, plot and everything else in her opinion. I kid you not! I was laughing out loud and totally felt sorry for this poor soul! What a missed chance to enjoy a great story!
BTW: LOVE YOUR BLOG! I need to browse more often 🙂
Mel
http://www.bookworm2bookworm.wordpress.com
Rose Lerner’s ‘Hook-a-Book’ is…
November 9, 2011
Welcome Melanie, thank you for the compliment and I love having ‘voices’ as part of the blog. Keep it up!
If I was a reader, it wouldn’t bother me either. Kinuko Y Craft did beautiful covers for editions of the House of Niccolo series by Dorothy Dunnett. Whether they were exact for the timeframe they exhibited, who cares? The fact was the ‘feel’ of the novels was right there and I loved the art anyway.
But as the writer who might ‘cop the flack’, not sure i am that courageous! We’ll see.
Clothing and construction didn’t change as quickly in early Medieval times, Prue. I would think that with a lot of readers, using the Book of Hours would feel period and set a lovely tone. Where you can get into trouble is using the wrong clothing in, say, a Regency novel. Fashion had become a big deal around there, and what was worn in Sense and Sensibility was not what would have been worn in Persuasion.
But then I’m one of those fluid Art Majors, too!
But you see, Katharine, like Anne, you’re an artist willing to step outside the square. I LOVE that you are both fluid Art majors and wonder if you should both establish a degree-class for the purists!
It really wouldn’t bother me – personally i think novels can become a bit too bogged down by a need to show historical accuracy. A case in point would be Geraldine Brooks’ ‘ Calebs Crossing’ – every member of my book group agreed that whilst we enjoyed the story we found the dialogue and some of the (no doubt accurate) details tedious.
I found this blog because of my love of all things Gisborne (and eagerly await the finished book) – part of the attraction being the BBC’s imaginative visual portrayal which never let history get in the way of a good story. Well, that and Richard Armitage in black leather… In contrast to South Riding which was so gloomy and true to 1930’s Britain, i gave up after one episode spent squinting at the screen trying to make out what was going on.
A critic might nit pick over details but the readers won’t. The readers will just appreciate your wonderful story telling.
Hi Bollyknickers… you are one of my mob. I loved the take on Robin Hood… I apprecaite the modern language, the in-jokes, the contemporary take on costume and yet the producers still managed to give a sense of history and a sense of legend. South Riding I barely got past the first episode as it was too depressing and stuck in the groove by half.
More than anything, I rather like the distinction you make between critics and readers… and I’d really like to think that I’m the latter as far as hist.fict goes… a reader first and foremost who loves the story and really doesn’t mind if the protagonist smells of lemons before lemons were introduced to England…
It wouldn’t matter to me, or to 99% of readers, I’d guess. The interesting cover image would be so enjoyable that very few would worry about its exact date.
99% sound perfect… I’d be happy, Gerry.
Absolutely mouth-watering! Maybe the designer could compromise, and Photoshop minor modifications to the costume to make it more in keeping with the era.
Then you would have the best of both worlds.
It will be interesting seeing what she comes up with when the time is right.
Hello Mesmered,
I recently read your draft of “Gisbourne” and I loved it. I don’t think a leap of 200 years in a single facet of the project will make a difference. The hanging is brilliant and it is close enough to the period for my tastes. I wanted to know if you are familiar with the author Chelsea Quinn Yarbro? She writes historical fiction using an immortal vamp as the main character based on an actual historical figure. The vampirism has never been the main focus of these books however; so there are no dripping fangs mentioned. The vamps are simply a device used to place the main character in different periods. Yarbro does extensive research and the reader gets a really good grasp of the lives, thoughts, habits, norms and look of the period. One book by Yarbro that may particularly interest you is “Crusador’s Torch” which begins in 1188AD. When I was reading your draft of “Gisbourne” my mind went to the time period as portrayed in the Yarbro book. I look forward to your publication. I recently watched all three seasons of “Robin Hood” for the fvery irst time and walked away wanting much much more Guy Of Gisbourne. I like what you’ve done with him
Thanks.
Chris thank you so much. And thank you also for the link to Yarbro, not an author I know but one I might just enjoy. What the author does sounds very much like magical realism…
The time-frame you mention is almost spot-on for Gisborne which makes it highly attractive for me. Thank you again.
I’ve been telling her about Yarbro for years, but she claims to be allergic to vampires. Love Yarbro.
When the name Pat and Yarbro are mentioned in the one breath, bells start ringing. I DO remember.
No. No, no, no, no, no. My blood runs cold to think of it. Shape of sleeves or openings of shirts is all tiny detail – what happened in those 200 years was an enormous change is the way human dressed themselves, and that change was tied to the change in the way people thought about themselves as individuals in society – Humanism. It was the birth of Fashion.
Before the Renaissance, clothing was folk art, as it is in some cultures today. The few acceptable pieces of clothing were made to a formula, like kimonos and saris. Surface detail could be added by the maker, but the basic shape was an indicator of your membership in a tribe, or village, or religion. The Humanist invention of personal individuality let people wear clothes that proclamed them as unique individuals. The 15th century in particular was a riot of extreme invention in fashion, and fashions changed very quickly. Folk clothing hardly changes at all: that was the point. One knew by looking who was who, and where they were in society. Sumptuary laws started turning up after this time.
People speak through clothing, and you can understand their meaning even if you don’t understand their language. It speaks in how people carry themselves, how they reveal and hide themselves, and how think of themselves and each other. Even if your readers can’t articulate the anachronism, they can still feel it on some level. Watch out.
There speaks someone who has the detailed knowledge of the costumier. Wise, wise words. Maybe my designer can create a design with the colour and style of the Limbourg Brothers but which sits more happily on the cusp of the thirteenth century.
I do have to giggle over “historical authenticity”. Having majored in History and lit, I’m frightfully keen on historical accuracy. And having done many uni courses in art history, with a nice little library of costume and art, of course we must be “accurate”! (btw, Tres Riches Heures dates from c. 1415 – about 300 yrs after whenever “Gisborne” is dated – the librarian/amateur historian here just had to go double check that in a costume book 😀 )
Does it matter, in writing beautiful fiction, or costuming BBC Robin Hood in biker leather and High Street fashion? Or illustrating an evocation of Gisborne? Not a bit. The essence is the thing.
The lovely thing about the Tres Riches Heures is that every “hour” illustrates a story that is left to your imagination. Carry on and ignore librarians and historians! 😀
Hi Fitzg. Gisborne is dated at about 1190-ish. So it’s midway between 200 and 300 years to the creation of Tres Riches Heures.
It’s interesting seeing your opinion and Pat’s, as Pat is a former theatrical costumier with a sharp eye for accuracy and you are a history major… with a sharp recall of fact. Then there are Anne’s (Art Major) and Katharine’s (Art Major) opinions as well.
I’m a history major myself, but as ever I have an eye to beauty more than the fact. The ;’essence’ as you call it. The early Middle Ages isn’t called the Dark Ages for nothing, and there is so much contradictory ‘fact’ out there.’
Maybe I will carry on and ignore myself and my own concerns!
I’m afraid 200 years for history buffs do make a difference… I love the Très Riches Heures too, so my next historical will probably be set in that time! 😉
But then… it’s your book. Although the cover creates expectations. Dunno, this is really the 1million dollars question! 🙁
In respect of any cover, Barb, I think it should create intimations not expectations. If Tres Riches Heures were used, I imagine it would be style and colour, or a micro view that doesn’t give anyone false ideas of time and place.
In any case, the designer has to create HER own interpretation of the novel and Tres Riches Heures may not even get a look in. It’ll be interesting to see what emerges.
In respect of what you say about 200 years in the Middle Ages, it doesn’t matter to me at all and I’m a history buff AND a history major. I hate being pedantic about every little thing. I often say it’s the story for me first, then the fact.
But that’s a whole other post…